Comments on: 5G altimeter interference: aviation versus telecoms https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/5g-altimeter-interference-aviation-versus-telecoms/ Covering 5G technology, systems, infrastructure and wireless design and development. Fri, 20 Jan 2023 03:12:42 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.5.4 By: MAKLAO https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/5g-altimeter-interference-aviation-versus-telecoms/#comment-31471 Fri, 20 Jan 2023 03:12:42 +0000 https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/?p=17959#comment-31471 In reply to Robert Ladley.

just put some 4150 4450 Mhz band pass on altimeter receiver and antenna path , and a big notch filter betwen 5g TX and its radiator

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By: Ron https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/5g-altimeter-interference-aviation-versus-telecoms/#comment-20941 Mon, 20 Jun 2022 06:19:59 +0000 https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/?p=17959#comment-20941 I would like to know what the signal strength or output power is on 5g altimeters. %g is known to need more closer spaced cell towers and repeaters because it doesn’t propigate long distances well….. well 5 miles high in an airplane would require a 5g 4.2 – 4.4 ghz signal that could propigate and return double the altitude. How much power has to be outputted by the transceiver to push a 5g wave as much as 10 miles without any repeaters?
Thank you

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By: Tom https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/5g-altimeter-interference-aviation-versus-telecoms/#comment-17059 Mon, 28 Feb 2022 17:57:31 +0000 https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/?p=17959#comment-17059 In reply to Evandro Menezes.

Remember, the altimeter works like a radar. The altimeter transmitter has to comply with spectral mask requirements as well and the altimeter receiver bandwidth has to be wide enough to receive weak reflections. So, it’s necessary for the receiver bandwidth to be very wide. It’s not a “lousy front end receiver”, it’s a necessary front end receiver. You can’t expect the airline industry to spend a fortune to retrofit proven safety equipment because the FCC and Telecom industry bent the rules to make money.

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By: John Grant https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/5g-altimeter-interference-aviation-versus-telecoms/#comment-15683 Fri, 21 Jan 2022 10:18:26 +0000 https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/?p=17959#comment-15683 Stories in the UK press this week that it’s only Boeing planes that are affected, and indeed only certain models. Not including the 737max, which no doubt has had a thorough review as part of the recertification after the MCAS issues.

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By: Martin Rowe https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/5g-altimeter-interference-aviation-versus-telecoms/#comment-15665 Thu, 20 Jan 2022 14:07:37 +0000 https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/?p=17959#comment-15665 In reply to Mark Clancey.

If this discussion really does turn political, comments will be held back from publication or be subjected to editing. We haven’t reached that point yet, but we’re watching.

Just a reminder, let’s keep this discussion technical and not let it deteriorate into anything even slightly political. There are plenty of other sites for political discussions.

Case in point, “Wireless network operators and aviation authorities routinely trade barbs over spectrum, but this latest snafu takes things to a whole new level. The Federal Communications Commission (FCC), Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), and Department of Transportation have fantastically failed the people they are charged to serve,” wrote Matt Kepko on sdxCentral.
https://www.sdxcentral.com/articles/opinion-editorial/op-ed-mid-band-5g-meets-american-incompetence/2022/01/

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By: Evandro Menezes https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/5g-altimeter-interference-aviation-versus-telecoms/#comment-15652 Thu, 20 Jan 2022 03:25:37 +0000 https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/?p=17959#comment-15652 In reply to Tom Wilson.

Per the 3GPP technical specifications, 5G transmitters are attenuated at -13dBm per 0.2 MHz outside their band. Given that until 2024 the guard band between 5G and radio altimeters is 400 MHz, the possibility of interference is nil, even with such a lousy front end receiver at in Fig. 2.

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By: Mark Clancey https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/5g-altimeter-interference-aviation-versus-telecoms/#comment-15644 Thu, 20 Jan 2022 01:50:12 +0000 https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/?p=17959#comment-15644 In reply to Chuck Hill.

So, your view of an alleged co-channel interference issue, where an astounding, unprecedented, unnecessary and spectrum-wasteful 400 MHz guard band exists between two non-competing radio spectrum services, is that our domestic government bureaucracy isn’t large enough and there exists too little regulation? Obviously your position is from a political and not RF engineering one.

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By: Tom Wilson https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/5g-altimeter-interference-aviation-versus-telecoms/#comment-15641 Wed, 19 Jan 2022 21:23:06 +0000 https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/?p=17959#comment-15641 In reply to John Grant.

Figure 2 is just showing a “typical” receiver front-end filter response and that’s not regulated. Transmitters are regulated, but poorly enforced and that’s what happened here. There are National and International spectral mask requirements on transmitters to limit adjacent channel interference. An example can be seen in the NTIA Annex J where (for some applications) transmitters require no attenuation within the modulation bandwidth (necessary bandwidth), but out of band rolls off at -40 dBsd to -60dBsd within the allocated channel.

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By: John Grant https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/5g-altimeter-interference-aviation-versus-telecoms/#comment-15640 Wed, 19 Jan 2022 19:31:55 +0000 https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/?p=17959#comment-15640 In reply to Tom Wilson.

That’s not the message I get from Figure 2.

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By: Tom Wilson https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/5g-altimeter-interference-aviation-versus-telecoms/#comment-15637 Wed, 19 Jan 2022 17:29:36 +0000 https://www.5gtechnologyworld.com/?p=17959#comment-15637 I agree that the FCC has lost its marbles. They used to be responsible for presiding over the carefully distributed RF spectrum, but in recent decades, they have been blinded by the financial and political greed. Typically, the culprit (terrestrial telecom transmitters) bears the responsibility for correcting the problem and, if necessary, and paying damages to the victim (incumbent aviation industry). The telecom companies are well aware of the spectral mask requirements that are designed to minimize adjacent channel interference. It’s not magic, or late breaking news. The telecom industry, with help from the FCC, just ignored it.

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